TopoFusion support forums

TopoFusion Development => Beta Testing => Topic started by: sanewcomb on August 14, 2006, 11:29:19 AM

Title: UTM Grid Feature
Post by: sanewcomb on August 14, 2006, 11:29:19 AM

Thank you for adding the UTM Grid feature. A few comments.

1. I like the ability to just click on a checkbox to add the grid to the export for printing. I don't find much use for the grid on screen. The mouse shows the coordinates anywhere on the screen and I only use the grids while out in the field.

2. There needs to be some way to control the font size, either automatically sizing depending on export size or user selected. Being able to export higher resolution images for printing is a great feature, but the way it's implemented makes the grid labels too small to read. I've been using the 2500x1875 export size with the screen scale set to around 1:7 (scale marker about 4000 ft) for printed maps that work well in the field.

3. BUG: When the preferences are set to Lat/Long and NAD 27 United States, the grid becomes fixed (does not move with moving the map) and displays wrong values.

4. Something to think about. While reading a position using a printed map, I find it easier to have the grids set 1000 meters apart, with grid ticks showing 1/10th divisions (with a bigger tick at 1/2 grid box). It's easier to eyeball and do the math since the UTM is a decimal system. Half a 500 meter grid box is 250, a fourth is 125 and so on... Plus it would reduce the clutter of grid labels. These preferences are based on using printed maps with grids out in the field.

It's true that I've been waiting for this for several years and thanks for adding it.

Cheers,

Steve
Tucson, AZ

Title: UTM Grid Feature
Post by: Krein on August 14, 2006, 12:54:29 PM

Quote (sanewcomb @ Aug. 14 2006,2:29)

1. I like the ability to just click on a checkbox to add the grid to the export for printing. I don't find much use for the grid on screen. The mouse shows the coordinates anywhere on the screen and I only use the grids while out in the field. 2. There needs to be some way to control the font size, either automatically sizing depending on export size or user selected. Being able to export higher resolution images for printing is a great feature, but the way it's implemented makes the grid labels too small to read. I've been using the 2500x1875 export size with the screen scale set to around 1:7 (scale marker about 4000 ft) for printed maps that work well in the field. 3. BUG: When the preferences are set to Lat/Long and NAD 27 United States, the grid becomes fixed (does not move with moving the map) and displays wrong values. 4. Something to think about. While reading a position using a printed map, I find it easier to have the grids set 1000 meters apart, with grid ticks showing 1/10th divisions (with a bigger tick at 1/2 grid box). It's easier to eyeball and do the math since the UTM is a decimal system. Half a 500 meter grid box is 250, a fourth is 125 and so on... Plus it would reduce the clutter of grid labels. These preferences are based on using printed maps with grids out in the field.

Thanks for the feedback, Steve.

1. 'zactly what I was thinking.

2. You're right. How about if we just use size of the waypoint text?  Chance are if you want to read any waypoints on the exported map you'll want both font sizes increased.

Ideally we'd have more options between the two, but I think I'll stick with this solution for now.

3. Doh!  Thanks for the bug find.

4. Some other users are requesting the ability to be able to manually set (and always force) the same grid spacing.  If this happens you could fix yours at 1000.  Would this work for you?

Intermediate tick marks shouldn't be too hard, I'll see how it goes.

Title: UTM Grid Feature
Post by: sanewcomb on August 15, 2006, 12:30:26 PM

2. I think making the text size of the grid labels the same as the waypoint text size would be a quick solution that will work, though not the prettiest solution. As it is now, I need to oversize the waypoint text (wrt to looking at it on the computer monitor) so it is readable when exported at 2500x1875. Not sure if it will work for the entire range of waypoint text sizes of users. If someone is using a very large size for waypoints, it might make the labels overlap and unuseable. But probably a low chance of this happening to anyone.

4. User selectable grid spacing would be an improvement, but not worth too much (for my purposes) without the grid ticks. It all comes down to being able to quickly and accurately read or place an UTM coordinate on a printed map. Ticks on a decimal spaced grid provide that, and making the half way tick longer allows the eye to quickly figure out what value the tick corresponds to.

Thanks again. - Steve

Title: UTM Grid Feature
Post by: Krein on August 16, 2006, 11:05:20 AM

2. I made it so that the waypoint font (including size) is used only on export and only if not using the "current" setting.  This way "current" is still WYSIWYG.

4. Added tick marks and a forced grid setting.  Let me know what you think.

It's still 2.92 (didn't bother changing versions, though I should have).

Thanks.

Title: UTM Grid Feature
Post by: sanewcomb on August 16, 2006, 01:45:36 PM

Everything you said you had implemented sounds good. But I don't see it happening in the output.

2. Good way to preserve both aims. But the size of the grid label is the same as previous versions on my exported image file, even though the waypoint font size was doubled.

4. Don't see any tick marks on screen or in export image. I do see the new option pulldown menu with Off, AUTO grid spacing, 1000m etc, so I'm sure I have the new beta. In addition, even when 1000m selected, grids are still spaced at 500m.

An additional item that would be useful, but feel free to put onto TODO list.

5. It always irks me when I come across maps/coordinates that do not state the datam that was used. Although it is possible while still at home to determine what datam was used, it would be useful if Topofusion automatically printed the datam on exported images (could use the waypoint feature somehow). This is not critical, as it can be added by users using waypoints. Just something that would be nice and a bit more safe for users, present and future.

Steve

Title: UTM Grid Feature
Post by: Krein on August 16, 2006, 01:54:29 PM

Sorry Steve, guess that's what new version numbers are for (would have caught this particular mistake!).  Try it again.

5. I've thought about something along these lines, with the option for including stats on a track in the image also.  I'll keep datum in mind too.

Thanks.

Title: UTM Grid Feature
Post by: sanewcomb on August 17, 2006, 08:01:59 AM

2. Grid labels now come out fine and look good. The user will be able to see the grid labels if he sets the waypoint font size large enough to see for any given export dimension.

4. I see the ticks on the top and left margins. But to aid the eye in determining values they really need to be on every grid line. So when you are looking at any given grid box, you can estimate by seeing how close it is to a tick mark. Ticks only on the edge of the paper won't help much. If you're not sure what I'm talking about, check out the way Maptech or Delorme do grids. That works well in the field.

I printed out a map and I'm not sure the width of the tick marks is wide enough. But it's hard to tell from just the top and left margins. The grid line width is fine. This is using a HP720 printer. There are areas where I can't really tell what tick I'm looking at, but if there were ticks on all four edges of the boxes, that might be enough. The labels also get in the way on the edges, making it hard to tell.

The way you implemented the ability to only use grids for exporting is quirky (by temporarily turning on the grids on the screen, then exporting, then turning them off), but I understand why it was done that way. If you can save the state of that checkbox in between export calls, it would reduce potential confusion. But this is a minor issue.

Thanks for the quick responses Scott. I think you are close to a useful grid feature for TF - Steve

Title: UTM Grid Feature
Post by: Krein on August 18, 2006, 10:54:44 AM

Hey Steve,

Thanks for the continued feedback.  Try the latest (2.93).  Tick marks are where they should be.  The grid will also now turn off if you zoom too far out.  Before that it will only display the last 3-4 digits, if the labels are overlapping too much.

I also improved the display speed when you have a lot of waypoints loaded, but not actually shown.  Pretty embarrasing that a check for this wasn't in there from the get-go.