Author Topic: v1.7 and the Forerunner  (Read 10549 times)

DougN

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v1.7 and the Forerunner
« on: March 15, 2004, 07:47:09 PM »
You guys must be reading my (our) mind(s)! The latest release adds two great features- individual track selection/saving and the logbook.

No more paper logbooks, with Topofusion and the Forerunner I no longer fill out a semi-useless logbook. While using the latest beta release I could only think of two things which would make this software meet all of my needs.

1. User assignable categories for the tracks.

I participate in a few different sports- running, outrigger canoe paddling, mountain biking, hiking. It would be great if when I saved the gpx file (or look at the properties) I could select a category for the activity performed. That way when I run a summary from the logbook all the different sports would not be mixed together (A couple of runs really screws up my mountain bike pace). They would be broken down into categories with each of them having a summary.

2. Printer support for the logbook.

This is the best software by far I have found for my Forerunner. Keep up the great work!

Doug

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v1.7 and the Forerunner
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2004, 07:35:22 AM »
How do you individually select?  My beta copy still downloads all runs into one file.  Thanks

Krein

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v1.7 and the Forerunner
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2004, 05:03:44 PM »
Thanks for the comments and suggestions, Doug.  A user assignable type is a great idea.  I'll have to think about how to do the printing, but it should not be too difficult.

As for the individual tracks, the current beta allows you to delete unwanted tracks, but it can only save a single file.  I am modifying it so that it can save multiple tracks into different files.  It will be in the next beta.

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v1.7 and the Forerunner
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2004, 06:16:16 PM »
Is this a good spot for Forerunner stuff?

Anyway, love the software.  Just wanted to let you know that Forerunner allows for autopause and for intervals.  Somehow the Forerunner which laps are run laps and which are rest. Their software charts all the data.  Your logbook summarizes all the data and therefore makes your laps look pretty bad. '<img'>  Somehow though, when you scroll through the Forerunner data in the watch, it knows to only show the run laps.  I don't know how.  Just fyi.

Krein

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v1.7 and the Forerunner
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2004, 08:09:57 AM »
They must have extended the serial protocol with the lap information--if the logbook is able to get it.  Hopefully they will make the info public, then we can implement it.

I don't think it's worth the effort to try and reverse engineer it at this point.

Thanks for the heads up though.

DougN

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v1.7 and the Forerunner
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2004, 09:13:04 AM »
One other thing that I've noticed is that there is a discrepency between the Forerunner's "Distance" display and Topofusions "Length" display. After finishing my run the Forerunner displays 3.5mi, but after loading the gpx file into Topofusion the distance in the length column displays as 3.75mi. (I'm not using the lap function). Which one is right?

I haven't had much time to explore this problem. Anyone else see this happen?

Doug

Krein

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« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2004, 09:58:56 AM »
Doug,

This is a somewhat frequent occurrence with all Garmin GPS units.  The unit itself uses its own method for determining the total distance traveled.  If there is a loss of satellite lock sometimes it will miss some distance.  Usually when a lock is regained it will add the straight line distance, but depending on the total time between the breaks, sometimes it does not.

Generally I trust what TopoFusion tells me (the distance along the track) provided any obvious errors (bad points) are taken care of by hand.  

On my latest Mexico trip the odometer on the GPS read 140 miles at the end of the trip, but my friend's cyclometer read 153, and the GPS track read closer to 150 when I downloaded it.  I had lost signal in a few spots during the course of the trip--sometimes for 10 minutes or more (my GPS was shutting off on my handlebars on rough descents).

DougN

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« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2004, 07:51:50 AM »
That makes sense. My run is in a hilly area with many trees. Somes days I loose satellite lock as many as six or seven times.

Thanks,
Doug

AndyB

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v1.7 and the Forerunner
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2004, 07:04:03 PM »
Just tried Version 1.7 and here are a few initial items that I would 'ideally' to see in Topofusion for the Forerunner.....(probably the only items left that I ‘like’ about the Garmin Logbook product!).

(a) Downloading tracks/runs in the Gramin Logbook is very simple. It knows what are the new tacks/runs and just downloads them automatically with a single button press (i.e. no asking for file-names it just downloads new tracks and appends to the current logbook file). I like the idea of automatically appending each new track/runs into a single file (e.g. “Andrew’s 2004 Running.gpx”) but still having the ability to manage/view each track/run individually (i.e. logbook and viewing of tracks/runs still shows each individually). Maybe this can be done with version 1.7 now and I just have not found it out yet. The fallback option would be to have Topofusion automatically generate filenames based on run date?

(b) I do like the 'Windows Explorer' GUI design in the Garmin Logbook software for displaying automatically rollup of weekly/monthly/yearly totals. Topofusion is more flexible in allowing selection of start and end-dates for summaries, but for most users a automatic weekly/monthly/yearly totals display would be more user friendly, and mirror the on-board Forerunner history feature.

© I don’t see any download of ‘calories’ data in Topofusion…. It’s a pity not to include this data in the logbook

(d) In the logbook summary text screen I intuitively tried to enter free text (e.g. a few personal notes about the run), but it did not seem to allow this??

(e) The ability to print logbook summaries would be very nice…….admittedly the Gramin Logbook does not have this either.

In all other aspects Topofusion is a much superior product than the Gramin Logbook software, but for the increasing number of folks buying the Garmin Foerunner the ability to downloading all new tacks/runs into Topofusion with a single mouse click would be a big help.

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v1.7 and the Forerunner
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2004, 11:30:18 AM »
I am very new to Topofusion. I have been using the free version with my Forerunner with great success. How do I get to try the v1.7 with the logbook? Do I have to purchase Topofusion or is the beta version only available to a few.
Thanks in advance and I hope I am posting in the right place.

Krein

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v1.7 and the Forerunner
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2004, 05:59:37 PM »
Dan - right now you have to be registered and signed up for the beta list to get v1.7.  However, it isn't our intention to force people to register in order to try out the log book.  It just isn't ready for full release yet, but hopefully will be soon.  When it is I'll post to the Forerunner Yahoo group and let others in the community know.

AndyB - Thanks for the extensive list of suggestions and comments.  I will reply in detail when I have a few minutes; we just returned for a short bike touring trip.

Krein

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« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2004, 08:43:31 AM »
Quote (AndyB @ April 06 2004,8:04)
Just tried Version 1.7 and here are a few initial items that I would 'ideally' to see in Topofusion for the Forerunner.....(probably the only items left that I ‘like’ about the Garmin Logbook product!).

(a) Downloading tracks/runs in the Gramin Logbook is very simple. It knows what are the new tacks/runs and just downloads them automatically with a single button press (i.e. no asking for file-names it just downloads new tracks and appends to the current logbook file). I like the idea of automatically appending each new track/runs into a single file (e.g. “Andrew’s 2004 Running.gpx”) but still having the ability to manage/view each track/run individually (i.e. logbook and viewing of tracks/runs still shows each individually). Maybe this can be done with version 1.7 now and I just have not found it out yet. The fallback option would be to have Topofusion automatically generate filenames based on run date?

(b) I do like the 'Windows Explorer' GUI design in the Garmin Logbook software for displaying automatically rollup of weekly/monthly/yearly totals. Topofusion is more flexible in allowing selection of start and end-dates for summaries, but for most users a automatic weekly/monthly/yearly totals display would be more user friendly, and mirror the on-board Forerunner history feature.

© I don’t see any download of ‘calories’ data in Topofusion…. It’s a pity not to include this data in the logbook

(d) In the logbook summary text screen I intuitively tried to enter free text (e.g. a few personal notes about the run), but it did not seem to allow this??

(e) The ability to print logbook summaries would be very nice…….admittedly the Gramin Logbook does not have this either.

In all other aspects Topofusion is a much superior product than the Gramin Logbook software, but for the increasing number of folks buying the Garmin Foerunner the ability to downloading all new tacks/runs into Topofusion with a single mouse click would be a big help.

Andy,

Here are my thoughts.  Again thanks for the suggestions.

(a) Our design has always been around the single file per track idiom.  There are various reasons why we think this is better than storing all your data in a single place.  For instance, my collection of GPS data is growing to over 500,000 points, meaning that a single GPX file would be ridiculously large and very slow to read in on EVERY boot up of the program.  Multiple files also means that it's easier to send data to people.

What was lacking before the logbook was a means to index all your files in a way that made sense.  That's why I really like what the forerunner has done for TF.

As for ease of downloading, I don't think it's too much to ask the user to name a file for each download.  However, it may be possible to check what data is "new" to ease the process.  I'm not quite sure how that would work though, but could be done using the logbook.

BTW, there is a way to download tracks into an existing file--just choose it in the dropdown of the GPS dialog.  You won't get the new "merge/delete tracks" dialog, however, and it will probably save all of your saved tracks to the file as well.

(b) I agree that there needs to be some automatic way to get weekly or monthly totals.  I will have a look at the Garmin logbook when my Forerunners arrive (this tuesday).

© I've never found calorie computations to be very accurate, however the equations are not hard to implement.  It was actually there in an earlier version but I took it out because I don't agree with the way slope is handled (linearly).

(d) No, the place to enter personal notes is by doing "File Info" -- perhaps we should change what the button says.  I can see why you tried to enter data there--it looks like you can and it says summary.  Hmm.

(e) Agreed.

BVH

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v1.7 and the Forerunner
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2004, 11:04:32 AM »
Krein, I just made the purchase after trying Topo for a few weeks.  May I sign up for the beta trial of 1.7?  I'd like to be able to use the logbook feature with my forerunner 201.


Later in the same day, I got the file.  Thank you!

Bob

AndyB

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« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2004, 05:09:47 PM »
A few more comments on your comments........

(a) Your rational for multiple files make sense to me now…. Thanks I agree… However, from the Forerunner point I still think it would be nice to have to some way to ‘auto save’ each new download.

The ideal would be if Topofusion could remember the last file/run that was previously ‘saved’, and only save-off the new runs/files stored in the Forerunner (e.g. I currently store up a weeks worth of runs, before I download them into the logbook at the end of the week). An automatic filename could be based on the date the run/file was stored in the Forerunner (e.g. 040414_01, 040414_02, 040415_01, etc for runs on the 14th April 2004 and 15th April 2004). Obviously each file would have to be read to obtain the encoded date.

Also one thing I have notice is that Topofusion needs download ALL the runs/files stored in the Forerunner, before I can select the last few runs/files I wish to save. As my run/file history starts to build up in my Forerunner, the process of saving only the new runs/files into Topofusion is going to start taking a long time.
 
(b) and © would be nice but not as important as (a) above.

(d) The ‘summary’ data field within the logbook dialog is the most logical (and best) place for user notes. While reviewing the logbook entries, it would be nice not having to use multiple button presses to view users notes – also allowing user notes in the ‘summary’ field would avoid this.

My suggestions aim to help make a good product even better.

AndyB
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